Empowering Expat Women and Beyond with Camilla Quintana | TNN51

Allen  

Welcome to another episode of The New Nomad podcast. Very excited to have Camilla Quintana today an expat empowerment coach, much focus on her podcast empowered expat woman. I think we’re gonna learn a lot today. And you know what, Andrew, a lot of conversations have come up in the past about different groups, when they travel, the different issues that they face, women face some different issues and then different groups. We worked with a group called I love black people remember, Andrew, the issue about having a Global Green Book, there’s a lot of uniqueness out there. And, you know, we’re looking to pull all these groups together, but also give give group support. I think we’re going to learn a lot on that today. What’s your thoughts about when you travel, where you see some different impediments for different folks?

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Andrew  

Well, you know, I so value the coaches. I have coaches in my life executive coach to others that I can pour my pour myself out to, and have someone listening and saying, Okay, there’s a line you’re believing right there, let’s shift that you know. And, and, you know, having powerful women around me, for my wife, to my daughter, and others, I, I look forward to what we get to learn today with Camilla on because we all have so much to learn. I think everyone makes mistakes daily. And it’s those that are self aware to realize that we need to find people to help us shift perspectives, so that we don’t make the same ones again, and keep in a cycle. So this is gonna be fun.

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Allen  

So let’s bring in Camilla, and Camilla. You know, that type of intro. You know, we all need coaches. But we also need people who have a deeper understanding of a lot of the different issues, you must get so much feedback on your podcast. And today, we’re excited about sharing some of those with us. But before we get there, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you ended up really focusing on that expat experience and your own travels and tribulations, so to speak.

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Camilla  

Okay, well, hey, everyone, and thank you so much, guys for having me on the show. This is amazing. I’m really excited about our conversation. And yes, so I have been an expat ever since I was 18 years old, actually. And I guess it started earlier than that, because I was born into a very globally minded family. You know, I have an Italian in Austria. So I’m from Vienna, Austria. I have an Italian grandfather and a Spanish grandmother, another grandfather of mine was a diplomat. So really, global living was always a very present topic. And so I always figured I was really meant to go out into the big wide world not stay in one place. And back then I actually wanted to become a famous singer. So that was my plan that was going to take me around the globe with my singing career. Well, that didn’t work out. But I still decided to go abroad to study when I was 18. So I went to the UK, I continued my studies in Madrid, I did international relations, and I got an MBA. And when I returned to my hometown, Vienna, that’s actually when I met my Spanish husband. And ever since we got married, we’ve continued this expat lifestyle, but now it was for his international career. So that was a game changer in a way, right? Because I went from being a self initiated expat, someone who always wanted to live abroad and soak up all of these experiences to someone who was, you know, in a way, I felt like, Okay, now I’m forced to go abroad. Now I’m like, I need to follow along. And it was a really tough transition. And long story short, that is ultimately what got me into coaching and what got me into coaching women. So like you said, Andrew, in the beginning that, you know, through coaching, we really learned to look at things from a different perspective. And that’s exactly what happened to me. And that is how my life was so tremendously enriched by this world of coaching that I entered into, you know, getting my diplomas and so forth. And I decided to focus on expat women because I  was right. Who could I better relate to than my fellow expats. And here I am.

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Allen  

It’s interesting because Andrew and I hear a lot about the issues of the trailing spouse. And there seems to be this curve of like, a follow and typically women so I’m but there’s different groups, but typically the curve is you could probably explain to our audiences, we’re really excited to go, then they go, then they’re excited about the immersion. And then after about three months or four months, we’ve been here for a while, and the spouse that’s working is traveling and going all over. And then you get back to the kind of the daily, typical grind is that what you see and part of the issue is getting people empowered to push through that? Or share with us a little bit about what you’re seeing as the major issues that are helping, you can help but also the issues that they need to get through.

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Camilla  

Yeah, definitely. So when it comes to the trailing spouse, like you described, right, it is a really tricky situation, because it’s not your decision. So every time that happens, when it’s not entirely your decision, and then something goes wrong, it’s so easy to go like, you know, if it wasn’t for this husband of mine, or I wouldn’t be in this situation. So it’s easy to go into a victim like to adopt the victim mentality. And that obviously, puts you in a really difficult situation, because it’s so hard to get out of that. And at the same time, I know that a lot of, you know, the expat wives, for instance, they build their little groups. And while they are so important for support, sometimes they can also add to that feeling of, we don’t really belong here, we don’t really have our place here, we’re not really happy with what’s going on. And there can be so many issues, sometimes you don’t, you cannot even get a working permit if you wanted to. So it’s really hard sometimes to say, Okay, I’m going to find a project of my own. And yes I think, you know, just like a very basic tip is to always surround yourself with people who have a can- do mentality, and not with others who make you feel even more distant, even more frustrated in the situation that you find yourself in. And then also, I always say, look for a project of your own, if that can be professional, it doesn’t have to be just something that truly fills you up. And when you think about it, even though, of course, you know, you may make a lot of sacrifices to move abroad, you leave a lot behind for sure. And that isn’t easy. And I know that myself, but it’s also a chance, it’s also a chance to say, what do I really enjoy doing? What didn’t deny maybe dare to do back home? Because it was, I don’t know frowned upon, or I just wasn’t, you know, it just wasn’t in the cards for me. Well, maybe now’s the time that you can do that. So it is really exciting at the same time.

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Andrew  

You know, you take me back in time, back when I was dating my wife, I had the privilege of going to a seminar for two weeks. And one of the speakers was Ruth van Reken who wrote the book Third Culture Kids, but she wrote another book that is often not talked about called Letters Never Sent. And this is one that really talks about grief. Grieving those we leave behind grieving the experiences. And I think a modern day expression of that is FOMO, the fear of missing out, you know. I think there’s probably an acronym for a better way to describe it, but also grieving what you did miss out on, or what you perceive that you missed out on. And sometimes we can get stuck in that trap of focusing on what we’re missing out on, rather than focusing on what we can create and become in a new season, and new place. Because all the newness, all the unfamiliar, becomes larger, all of our weaknesses become forefront. And we tend to grieve rather than grow. And I think it’s essential we do both. What do you say?

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Camilla  

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think grieving is indeed an important part of the expat experience because you do grieve the places of the people that you leave behind, and especially home and like you said, right, it’s kind of like the life that I could have lived, the life that my friends are living the, life that my family is living, and I’m not really part of it. That is really difficult. At the same time, in my experience, you know, life is this constant dance between trying to see the glass half full, and trying not to see it half empty. And if you win, if you can see half full, if you can see the opportunities instead of the obstacles and if you can find the energy and the optimism to pursue them. You’re going to be great, you’re always going to find a way no matter where you are, I’m totally convinced of that you’re going to find your way.

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Allen  

Yeah, it’s interesting, because many of the different expat families, when they return, some of the feedback I get is, you know, we’ve just gone to this most amazing place at this most life changing event, and then get back and nobody even asked us about it. Which kind of feels like, Man, did we really do something that was important or not? And even on the business side, you know, a female executive once told me, she returned to the home office, she helped build an organization in a new country is there and then just like, Hey, happy, you’re back. Nobody’s like, Hey, how was it building that business in Portugal? You know, and thank you for getting it going. Maybe some comments also about the people left behind the role that they have to play, whether they need to be mentors, or keep people in the loop. And, you know, now with the ability to reach out through the web or whatever, you would think people could be closer, but a lot of times, they still feel distant. And that’s one of the feedback points I get if somebody is going overseas, or somewhere different is the people left behind. They don’t feel they have that same communication anymore. Are you finding that the same thing?

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Camilla  

Yeah, I feel like there’s this, this strange perception that the one who leaves is the one who’s supposed to make all the effort to stay in touch. That’s kind of like I think subconsciously, what’s going on in the people back home, right, because they just continue with their life, you’re not there. So you know, you should be the one probably calling and, and scheduling a date with them when you do get there. And I go back home a lot, to be honest. And I do find it sometimes exhausting. You know, I’m already flying across Europe to be at home. And now I also have to manage your complicated schedule. Like could you please just go out of your way to meet me and you know, say, any time that suits you, Camilla, that would be nice. So yeah, I know what you’re saying.

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Allen  

Well, and that’s an interesting thing, too, is if you’ve traveled all the way back, and then you’re the one trying to find an hour in this get you kind of like, you know, what, I came halfway around the world to reconnect, and people make it, it goes back to the community aspects. It’s very difficult. And I know that a lot of the things that you help people with is getting through the loneliness, pushing through loneliness or building community, community at home and community where they’re at. Maybe some comments and tips that you have on building that community, especially for expat women.

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Camilla  

Yeah, so I do actually think that it’s really important to both you know, honor and, and treasure your friendships back home. And then, at the same time, build new friendships abroad. Because I do think that the friendships that you have back home, even if you feel a little more distant, like sometimes I think we are too aware, sometimes we’re too little of were aware of what was going on in our emotional life. And sometimes we’re too aware, you know, that’s still a person that has been your friend probably for a really long time. So don’t be too hard on them, just because they probably don’t get your international lifestyle, you know, it’s, it’s probably difficult for them, because they haven’t experienced it. So just cut them some slack and do continue the friendship and even be proactive if you need to. 

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And at the same time, I think it’s so important to bond with people on site, right locally, where you’re at, like, I assume that for women, it’s even more the case, because we’re just a little more, you know, we enjoy each other’s company a lot. And a few things that have really helped me and I know, also, you know, clients of mine and women in my orbit is, first of all, like something really basic, is to just start and maybe frequent, let’s say, a cafe or a restaurant that you really like, and just find some nice familiar faces to say hello to people feel like you are, you know, somehow connected even if you don’t have any friends yet, but then you know, when you’re in need of a friendly face, you can always go to that coffee shop and the waiter will know what you’re about to order and, you know, greet you in a nice way. And I think that really, really helps in the beginning just to have a few places where you can go and feel welcome. And and then obviously, as you’re looking for friends, it really helps to find them via a shared interest. Or if you have children, then you know, you can find them at school or at the playground. If you have a hobby, definitely go and do that. I always say that the momentum of just having moved is so important. And what you don’t do in the first, I think you said, Allen, right, like the first three months that you’re really hyped up, you’re excited, and everything’s new and fresh. But you don’t do that meaning, looking for friends, looking for activities, creating a routine, settling in, in your home, decorating your home, whatever you don’t do in that time, may not even get done, because you just grow accustomed to the way that it’s been. So definitely use that momentum.

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Andrew  

I hear a few things and I reflect on my own kids as we’ve lived different places around the world. And some of them short term, others longer. You know, I reflect back on living in Liverpool when my wife was getting her postgraduate and travel medicine. And, you know, the reflections of kids saying, Oh, wow, we put pictures on the walls. Compared to other houses to where we, they noticed, just in the busyness of things that we never went out and bought and framed prints, or, you know, got art to put on the walls or never hung family pictures anywhere and

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Camilla  

Yes, noticing things. That’s the thing. 

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Andrew  

Yes, and those are some small but crucial things that need to be done. Even if you’re living by yourself, it’s to get the plant, it’s to hang a picture to go out and find some local art that in the end, you may roll up and put in a suitcase, you may leave it behind. But those anchor things that also help you get up and get out are really crucial. You said something a moment ago though, that I catch on, because sometimes you get caught in the busyness and the overwhelming aspects of a new city and then you build a moat around yourself protecting because everything can be kind of scary. What’s your one key if, if there’s somebody listening who says okay, I’ve been here nine months, and I’ve got that moat built around me now, because I’m kind of scared of what’s on the other side. And I don’t want to let anybody in because I’ve already come through three maids and I’m tired of this or that. And, you know, is there one key piece of advice to get someone out of their shell and say, No, you’ve never needed and you’ve never played bridge, go do it. Surely there’s something besides that. I guess there’s an online Wordle group that meets at the cafe on the corner, everybody’s playing Wordle together.

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Camilla  

Okay, well, that’s already great advice. And, you know, I guess what I hear in the scenario that you described, is really a fear of seeing what’s on the other side. So it’s really this need for safety, which I can totally understand because living abroad already takes a lot of the safety and the comfort that we were probably used to back home. It takes that away because everything is new, it’s a different language, it’s a different culture, right. So it’s really easy, especially when you’re more on the sensitive side to to feel less safe in that new place. And if that is your experience, then it’s okay to just say I’m going to look for a few more things now that make me feel safe. So maybe until now it was you know, the school mom, the other school mom and being inside your home and going into the supermarket next door, well maybe you can find some other things that don’t feel like a huge step outside your comfort zone. Because as we said you already are so far outside your comfort zone so no need to put more pressure on you. Just try to find a few more things that could feel safe. Like for instance, maybe that school mom has a friend right and you could meet her maybe or like we said right sign up is it playing bridge is it you know, a class if you have time, if you’re if you’re working, connecting a little more with with a co worker of yours, something that doesn’t require you to to go too far outside your comfort zone if that’s really what’s scaring you.

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Allen  

It’s interesting because you talked about kind of getting outside your comfort zone. I when I travelled to locations, I try to either meet people through fact that I’ve great interest in either visiting museums and history or, as Andrew knows, I love microbrewed beers and when you go to place like that ,there’s always people willing to talk to you about the brewing arts, or playing tennis or sports, there’s so many opportunities out there. And each different area that you live in, there tends to be a different area and you’ve been in different countries. You’ve seen the difference between Austria and Spain. And I’m certainly different Americans. And one of the things that I tried to get is I tried to find somebody who’s not like myself. And this is the issue we run into a lot of people go to expat communities, and they obviously gravitate. And we all do it because we’re comfortable to people who are like themselves like interest. But finding somebody who says, Listen, I know I own that’s your interest. But here’s something completely different. Come join me on this. And those are the experiences that you’re like, Well, this is magic. This is something completely new and different. Which brings me to a section of our podcast where we always ask people, is there something, Camilla, that you’ve seen, that kind of describes like that it might be an overlooked person, place experience that people have amazed, or you’ve amazed yourself that you’ve stepped out? That you think people listening to this podcast might want to explore whether it’s a city, your place or thing, but we get some amazing answers on that. We’d love your feedback.

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Camilla  

Yeah, so, you know, if it’s a place I would definitely say the area I live in right now, which is the Basque country in the north of Spain. Interestingly, it got a bit of a bad rap, at least inside Spain for the bad weather. And me as an Austrian, I like the weather, I think it’s great, right? So it’s really relative to what you’re used to. Also, I think, you know, people are exaggerating, but right now we have lovely temperatures. You have beautiful coastlines, it’s very natural. There isn’t a lot, you know, it’s not very touristic, there isn’t a lot built. So but then you still have a few big cities, for instance, Bilbao, which is where I live and San Sebastian, which is beautiful, right at the coast. And yes, I think quality of life is great. Food is great. And got the beach. I mean, come on, you know, when you got the beach. So I always wonder, like I see for instance, in digital nomad Facebook groups, the destinations that people want to move to, and I’m always thinking, I think the Basque country would be amazing. So anyone who’s looking maybe for a new destination, or at least the trip, this is an area worth visiting.

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Allen  

And we’ve also heard from our digital nomad community that’s not a bad place to get a visa if you want to stay a little longer correct. Camilla, which also helps out.

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Camilla  

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think so too. Yeah. If you come around let me know. 

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Allen  

We will.  So Andrew, you’ve been to Bilbao you second the motion on the floor?

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Andrew  

I do and if they’re definitely go to the Guggenheim Museum, it’s a favourite, but you know, the food is fabulous. Yeah, it’s my favourite architecture in my travels. But all this has been so much fun, would you would you share with us, and these will be in the show notes so you can just scroll down on this page that you’re looking at and see it in the notes, but the various links of where we can get in people should find you if they’re just listening thinking, Okay, I gotta open another tab and go to it right now. You know, where’s the couple of best places to find you and do share as well what’s the ideal person that you serve with your, with your business?

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Camilla  

Right. So the best place if you have your tab open, the best place to come and find out more about me is definitely my website, which is www dot Camilla With a C and double L Quintana which is Quintana an all in one word. CamillaQuintana.com. You can also download a free guide that I have there for you. It’s called the 20 Confidence Killers You Need to Stop Doing in Order to Thrive Abroad. My target audience is really women living abroad or at least women identifying as a global woman. Maybe they’ve repatriated, maybe they just live a global lifestyle, but usually they’re women living abroad. And yes, I support them basically with reclaiming their inner power, like I like to say so really, you know, not letting expat life get the best of you but making the best of expat life. And a lot of the focus is also on confidence and on finding your long term vision and moving towards that. And then on social media, if you want to connect with me, I would so love to and also let me know that you are coming from this show. So on Instagram and Facebook, you can find me at coach.CamillaQuintana and on LinkedIn, it’s CoachCamillaQuintana all in one word, because the other wasn’t available. Such a bummer. Right?

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Andrew  

Yeah, it is. It is. But you also have a podcast, right?

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Camilla  

Yes, I do. It’s called the Empowered Expat Woman podcast. I think you guys mentioned that before. And, yeah, basically, I share, you know, all of these things. I have some great guests also for interviews. Anything that a global woman could be interested in, hopefully.

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Allen  

Fantastic. Well, we really appreciate you joining us today. You know, Andrew, you know, I love conversations like this. First off, very, very positive, you know, and that’s the thing about breaking out is you got to feel that empowerment that you’re gonna, things are gonna be okay, you’re going to get out, they’re going to meet some people. What’s your thoughts on today’s conversation as we wrap up?

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Andrew  

It’s such a great topic and a need. And I’m so glad to see that you’ve risen up to this challenge after you know, living around the world and spending time in so many different countries yourself and using your expertise in this specialized niche. Um, I’m aware more and more that the people need to know the resources that are available and how to find them. So it’s a pleasure to have you on today. And I hope you all will scroll down and click those links, follow what Camilla has to say on her social media channels, and share it with others who, you know, may want to reach out to Camilla. This has been so much fun.

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Camilla  

Well, it has been thank you so much for having me.

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Allen  

You bet. And we always love to have a great coach and the best coaches of all have walked in similar shoes. And the best coaches tend to be positive and look to build you up, not tear you down. And that’s something I picked up straight away from you. So with that we appreciate everybody listening in today, The New Nomad, please continue to travel safely. We look forward to hearing from you next week on The New Nomad podcast. And thanks again for joining us.

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