Content Creation From Croatia, Georgia and Beyond with Steve Tsentserensky | TNN78

Allen

Welcome, and thanks for joining us at The New Nomad Podcast, the podcast that supports the digital nomad, remote worker experience. I have Steve Tsentserensky with me today. Steve is somebody who has traveled to 65 different countries. He is a digital nomad ambassador. He’s a content creator, copywriter, somebody who has got a very interesting story. And for those of you who listen to this podcast, you know, a big part of this is about confidence to travel, and hearing people’s different stories, but also getting different resources. I think it’s going to be great to talk to Steve today, who’s in one of my favorite countries, Croatia. A wonderful place to visit, but we’ll obviously hear about other locations. I’m gonna bring Steve into the conversation. Steve, welcome. I’m so happy you could join us. If you could take our listeners quickly through you know, you start you know, we had a little bit of conversation preamble, Ohio State University, to now you’re in Croatia. And what tell me about your excitement to traveling and and how you ended up where you are today?

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Steve

Yeah, absolutely. First of all, appreciate the invite to be on, excuse me, it’s probably my favorite thing to talk about, be honest. Like, there’s nothing I like maybe the Cleveland Browns but there’s nothing like more than talking about traveling and how to do it and just sharing those experiences. So so how it started, even before Ohio State was my parents were the ones that like sort of put this nugget into my mind. They’re from the Soviet Union. And so they came to America in the 80’s. I’ll make I won’t take a lot of time with this. But they came to us in the 80’s. By the time I was born, ’86 we’re doing these little family vacations when I was young, anytime there was free time, they wanted to explore America. So they’re like, Alright, let’s get in the car was getting the band, we’re gonna go to Ocean City, Maryland, we’re gonna go to Hilton Head, we’re gonna go to Florida. And so it was just in my mind, anytime I had free time, I needed to learn something, explore something, have a different experience. And that just never went away. And so when I had the ability, after I finished at Ohio State to, to put that into action, I’m like, Okay, I’m going to figure out a way to revolve my life around traveling, and I was, I was working in a creative field. So it’s maybe a little bit easier to do it that way. But I’m also more, you know, difficult in some ways, it’s not as stable but still. 

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Steve

So from Ohio State, I moved out to the East Coast, I was working in video production and film production, and got sick of that quickly moved to Colorado to be a ski bum moved to New Zealand to be a ski bum. So that those back to back came back to work in the industry again. And finally, I randomly got a job being a digital marketing content specialist for Caribbean, travel with them for a lot produced adventure travel videos for companies that took me to Africa and Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa, another company took me to Nepal. That was my video production stuff. And then directed music videos that took me places. And then worked for another travel company that was taking me to, you know, a cruise line that was a multimedia producer for. So, all of that traveling in between all of those things for longer periods of time. And now, I travel 100% of the time, as of three years ago, really, I’ve been doing this for over a decade, but three years ago was when I stopped doing video stuff. And I’m only doing writing and choosing where I go intentionally now and not being censored. 

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Allen

So to tie that together. So you monetize this, your travels by doing content. Explain to our audience, you know, if they’re running a business, or they’re running an event or something, how they would use you because we all very familiar with hiring somebody to let’s say, do a music video. But, but by the content and writing is a different field altogether. Help us understand that.

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Steve

completely. Yeah, it was strange, when I switched to me was pandemic related because everyone on Earth are all of our work dried up. And I’m like, and then all the travel have dried up. So I knew I wanted to work somehow. And I wanted to travel again. And so it was a matter of figuring out some work to do that could facilitate to that facilitate that. I realized that was sort of burned out on video and photography. And I’ve been thinking about these things wrong, I thought because it was a more refined skill set, in my mind, at least to do video, to have so many different elements going on that I should be paid more to do that. But it’s also a much easier thing to learn. Anybody can literally learn it, whereas writing, which I also thought, who’s gonna pay writers, I’m doing significantly better as a writer than I ever did as a video producer. Because it’s much harder to outsource quality writing, you could outsource a video, get it to like 80% good, hire someone to just finish it and make it really nice. You have to hire someone that can think and write and like understand your brand, fundamentally, which is just a completely harder beast for many people to find a good one. And so I went deep into figuring out I had a marketing degree so sort of like oh my marketing degree of mine. And so yeah, changed careers started from zero and now like, have my copywriting business off since the pandemic. So I started that

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Allen

what I think separates you from other folks who do similar things is because of the countries you’ve traveled to, if a travel company comes to you, or a digital nomad remote work company comes to you, you understand the buzzwords and what needs to be out there. So I would take it, there’s a bit of a difference with somebody who’s writing copywriting who’s purely at US or domestic, you know, somebody’s there, versus somebody like us been a lot of different places, right? Is that what is kind of a big difference in the perspective?

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Steve

Yeah, well, it. Yeah, there’s a prospective difference. And like, so the writing I do, is not normally in this space that we’re talking about. But it’s usually a tech but even so, the ability to have interacted with people from so many different countries and learn so many different things, if you start to think a little bit differently about problems and solutions and, and how you tackle them and how you get to, you know, not just copy solutions for their writing, but like, it just shifts how you look at, I think everything and it gets addicted to that into it’s like, you get better at thinking which makes you a better problem solvers makes you more valuable. And it’s sort of this. Yeah, like just circle of like, positivity. And so I think, yeah, like, if I wrote a lot about digital nomads, specifically, and I occasionally I get no one to write about it. Unfortunately, only if the like I’ve written for CNBC, I’ve written for World nomads about that, but like, I wish it was the only thing I wrote. Yeah, yeah, it helps, it helps a lot.

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Allen

I mean, it’s interesting, because one of the things that we have on this pocket is a lot of people are very creative. And the creative people are the ones that often can pick the location, pick what work they want to take, you know, provide you have good Wi Fi, and you have, you know, your, your, your kind of wits about you and the different things and the marketing element is hard. Because you have to kind of get that out there. It’s interesting to me how you running this business? So is Croatia, a place that you picked? Because it’s a good place to do business out of or because that was somewhere that you were really kind of like, I just love this country in this Balkans or an area I want to explore. So how did you end up there vis-a-vis your job?

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Steve

Yeah, definitely, definitely the latter. I feel like doing business here. And I’m not an expert. So I don’t want to say it’s, yeah, bad or good. I’m leaning towards this. You’ve been here. So you know a little bit about the bureaucracy is not the easiest to navigate. Probably not the most ideal place. I plan to live here though. So because I sure very much the ladder. So no matter how difficult stuff is, and everything’s getting better around the Balkans with all of that, but it’s squarely it’s totally 100% related to the second thing, which was the feeling of being here, the people, the community aspect of how close you know, things are in terms of there’s just a different level of care for one another, I find here in this region and all these countries, that is like a really good energy to be around and makes you want to be a part of the community, which is I think, what, whether you’re traveling full time or not traveling full time, you want to have connections, and I think here is a really good place for it for a human connection. And after traveling for so long, I kind of got to Croatia was like, Yeah, this is my spot. I’m pretty much good. I’m pretty much good. Like I’d still travel, I intend to continue traveling, but I like coming back here.

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Allen

And they’re one of the countries that’s done a good job with the digital nomad visas. And I mean, right? Yeah, 

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Steve

phenomenally good job. Yeah. I mean, they were and what I love about it is, so I discovered it, because like how everyone does, it’s like, it’s gorgeous. But when you come here, they are doing a really good job of promoting this particular visa. And I think that’s why it’s been successful is it’s not just some governments will put it together. And that’s the end of the story. What happened here was the government I was putting together but with input from private sector, and then the private sector said, Cool, we have this tool now. And we’re going to take the banner, we’ll run with it, and we’ll put this out there and so wasn’t just like, only the incumbent on the government to say, Let’s pay for the promotion. It was people here really wanted to make it work. And so it became like a, everyone knows the word digital nomad here, like on the coast that I did, but in Zagreb, like there’s a club there, there’s like it’s a country that went sort of all in on it. And that’s also why it’s really easy for digital nomads to come here because they know there’ll be welcomed in here very easily. There’s already an infrastructure. There’s tons of these Facebook groups that are there have 1000s 10s of 1000s of people in them. It’s very like, sort of focused on the end user let’s say the 

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Allen

and I’ll add I’ve been Croatia when I was impressed with was the, what I call the creature comforts. The food is tremendous, but not overly expensive. The good great cup of coffee and a nice wine or beer if you like, people are relaxed. Yeah, you got the beaches you can get to the cities are nice. There’s some great history there. You know, how about yourself? Are you running into the same thing?

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Steve

you’re doing? You’re doing that you’re doing the mice? Yeah, you’re doing a better job than me. I was like, I feel like, maybe because I’m back. And I just it’s so natural to me now. Like last year, if you asked me, I would have just had all the same things. You did it. But I’m like, I’m like, kind of like at home right. That’s what it is now. So I’m so used to it. But it can I was just in in Albania. So it’s similar vibe with that. But like, food here is phenomenal. People here are beyond excellent. And the history, that’s another thing. That the region has, like, history that’s just out of this world. Interesting. Not just recent history, but dating back to, you know, centuries and centuries, centuries that, quite frankly, we just don’t have we don’t have holdings at all. Yeah, in the States, which is fine. We’re just younger, it’s with it’s just what it is. But I love being in places where like split where I am right now. For example, Diocletian’s Palace, which is what like 1700 years old strolling there, you got a coffee there. That’s mind boggling to me still. And I’ve been in there like hundreds of times now at this point. So yeah, the history intertwined with the modern society. And you know, you have a whole different country, when you go east when you go east Zagreb into Slavonia, out to Vukovar on the Serbian border, like that’s, you almost feel like you’re in a completely new place, completely different. People are even nicer, because like, here, they know they’re gonna get your vote coming towards coming to visit out there. They’re like you, you want to stay for a week finds here’s food, here’s the latte, here’s beer, here’s wine, we all made it all at home, we made all the music, here’s our cheese. Here’s just like, aggressively

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Allen

It’s interesting, because you touched upon the history aspects of it. When I was there. It was amazing to me as I traveled through the different areas that Yugoslavia ever held together as long as it did, because these are such different places. I mean, you touched upon you, you’ve been in Croatia, but you’ve got to Albania. I’ve been fortunate to get to Albania, Montenegro, Kosovo, these are all within a very small area. But you can see they’re so different. And historically, they were held together until the war in the Balkans. And thankfully that ended. There’s, there’s still a lot of places you can visit that, you know, bears some scars in that time. But the people have come out of that, you know, and rebuilt a whole wonderful different countries, right? It’s, it’s an interesting you go between these locations that aren’t that far apart, but they’re very different in a lot of the mindset.

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Steve

Yeah. And what I like is that there’s this interesting example from when I worked on cruiselines. Actually, I worked with a guy from can’t remember the exact country. This is so long as over a decade ago, I think it was like Macedonia and Albania, maybe. But it was to the stages to reach two countries that were regionally enemies. And at the time, they were still it was still sort of cold tension. And we were having a beer somewhere off the coast of like Alaska, I think. And we’re talking about there they were, they were in war, literally, they were like they were older guys, they were both literally at war for their countries, and we’re all having a good time relaxing. I’m like, What’s, what is the what’s the deal? Like? How is this possible? It’s like, well, when we’re there, all that stuff, sort of, we’re told to think about that because like governments are each other, but when we’re gone, when we’re away from that place, where the closest thing that we have in common and so there’s Yeah, and so when you take when you remove all that physically take yourself out of that place like they’re still intertwined their histories, their people not to say that the same, obviously. But like, that’s why I think that there’s a vibrancy here, people really culturally rich, they stick to their traditions, they want to keep them but they’re also like, past the war phase of all that hopefully, it’s all simmered now, but it is noticeable. I mean, there’s differences that are very stark, but there’s also similarities that under underlying the whole region that make it really wonderful to be in it

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Allen

mentioned something earlier, and you’re a Cleveland Browns fan, and you’re trying to watch from a distance. And admittedly to our audience out there who may not be huge sports fans, the Cleveland Browns fan is a long suffering. But you know what, there will be a reward someday that themes do come around and sometimes you wonder what type of pain and suffering you have to go through for that reward. But as you’re juggling about, is it easy to follow your teams, you know, nowadays from afar and can you actually see the games or do you just you know, get the extract? I mean, or are there associations like in the United States if you travel to a different city, you can usually find a Cleveland Browns bar but are there like groups that get together and watch these games where you’ve travelled or you’ve kind of a more lonely experience?

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Steve

It’s a more lonely experience. It depends because there are some places where you could find like a Browns backers outlet. But it’s still like generally it’s pretty pretty solitary. But the Browns have a big fan base. So Ohio State is actually Eastern Washington way more people that you can find to watch Ohio State stuff, but I follow it. I usually it’s usually like a daily I’ll read about in the morning, but there’s certain games where I’m like, I have to have to make an effort to watch this time. It is. So like, last season, we had our first playoff win and the game and forever. And so that believed was a primetime game. I stayed up till game started to hear I think, later even maybe two. I was up till like four in the morning. Yeah, at least watching the browns. And I watched their next game, also late. Watched Ohio State get destroyed in the national championship. Yeah, younger to go whenever we went to the championship. Yeah, I didn’t watch that whole thing. We were going to lose by like the first quarter. So I’m like, great. Save me some time. But no, I’ve gone here. I mean, in here in Split, I lived for part of the season last year. There’s a bar that has like NFL redzone. So go there, have some beers. And you can you can actually probably this weekend.

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Allen

It’s a great way to build community because one of the things we hear from any of the nomads and the expats is communities hard to build. And at least when I’ve traveled, I found that if you can find a good sports bar, right, you’ve got Wi Fi, you pick up the games, or the other thing, Steve that I often would do is if you could find a good microbrewery in most different countries, you’ll run into different folks there. I don’t know. Because you’ve traveled about have you built some community? Yeah,

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Steve

yeah, I’ve, I think you’re right, that people is the chief or is that I think I hear a lot, which is how am I going to meet people? And, you know, just, yeah, where am I going to meet people like, and it’s ironic because like, now we’re in a time when there’s like, you could connect with anyone with your phone more easily than ever before. You could just Facebook groups, there’s WhatsApp, there’s Telegram, there’s like there’s groups everywhere, the connection has never been more readily available, but people feel you’re more unconnected than ever. And I think that I think the basic thing that you mentioned, just being comfortable with going to a place on your own, and just sitting down, and eventually, like, you’ll have 22 awkwardness, maybe, but just the act of being there and having a beer and like I’ve gone to countless places by myself, just sat down. And I was like, alright, I’ll eventually figure out how to talk to somebody there. There’s always an opportunity to make some kind of conversation. And then people on the flip side of that, usually, you know, no one loves seeing someone by themselves either. Like, like, if you don’t look like a weirdo, people will just ask you how you’re doing also, you know, so I’ve never found it, like, wildly difficult. It’s definitely like, not the most comfortable thing on the planet. But what’s nice about sort of, I think this lifestyle is you choose it’s on you, like if I want to be alone, I think I’ll be in my apartment here all alone if I want to be but if I want connection, I have to go do it myself. So I have full control over like all elements of my life, which I think is a super powerful and empowering thing. And then it’s what you want to do.

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Allen

I think point I forget who said it, but somebody once said like 90% of everything is just showing up. And if you don’t show up, you won’t meet anybody. Right? It all you have to do. Yeah, yes, that’s there’s a couple people in the like, area that you aren’t. So we’ve talked a lot about Croatia, but certainly as you’ve been traveling about the 65 different countries. Why don’t you share a few of the highlights of places that you know, somebody’s listening this broadcast is yeah, I’d like to go to Croatia but where else Steve, would you would you recommend that you’ve had great experiences and take us on a little travel blog?

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Steve

Yeah, so recently and this one blew my mind it was Georgia, Tbilisi and like Batumi so Tbilisi Georgia and Batumi and a town called Kazbegi near the border with Russia. Georgia, mind blowing, it’s maybe one of the greatest places I’ve ever been ever. And normally, normally when I go to places I don’t sure have great opinions about them. But I don’t always feel like I have to come back. Usually I don’t usually I’m kind of like, Oh, that was great. I enjoyed it. But I don’t have to really go back to a lot of places I’ve been next. I don’t like them that just it feels like okay, that was it. Georgia is a place I could go I think I’m gonna go try it over here. It’s exceptional, exceptional on every level of it is great. I mean, affordability obviously is there, it is stunningly beautiful. The nature in Georgia is second to none. Food is outstanding. I think it’s one of the top cuisines on the planet. No one really ever considers it but it’s because many people don’t know it that well but the food is as good as anywhere it’ll get wine was basically invented there. So you have some copious wine flowing everywhere. If you’re into wine, and it’s all good high quality, like I remember you the ordering sizes well yeah, half litre. I couldn’t even get a glass sometimes. So Jordan, Georgia blew my mind. And so yeah, that one’s with a very high. Albania it’s pretty recent I wish I just came but I really enjoyed it as in Tirana. I feel bad that I didn’t get to explore more because it just timewise I was only able to spend a handful of weeks there. But that’ll be that was also one of those ones where it was not expected for it to be that enjoyable. New Zealand, I lived in for like 11 months. But that was ages ago. I’d imagine a lot of the good stuff hasn’t changed. It’s gotten more expensive now. But stunningly beautiful. Every kind of landscape. You could want that deserts, mountains, glaciers, rivers, like fjords phenomenal and pristine, they think it’s taken care of above everything else. So those three have been

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Allen

and if your Lord of the Rings fan, you know, it’s a fifth place. They’ve made quite a tourist attraction.

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Steve

I can hike up Mount. Yeah, they did. I mean, you have hobbits in whatever town that they filmed in or that they created and filmed in. But Mount Doom, you can actually like there’s a trail called the Tongariro Crossing and you could Mount Doom is in there. And you could walk up to the top of it if you want.

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Allen

you know, you touched upon something with different cuisines to you know, it’s amazing. I would have never thought of Georgia, Georgia. I’ll look into that. And I’m just wondering because it’s kind of at a crossroads, right. So is the cuisine kind of what you might see in the Balkans and then you have some of the Russian influence with borscht and things like that. And, I mean, some of these places that tend to be Crossroads 10 have great cuisines. Is that what happened there? I mean, yeah.

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Steve

Yeah. So you have it’s even deeper than that, because Tbilisi was along the Silk Road. And so you have like, not just the recent influences of the civilizations, but you have stuff coming from Middle East and Asia through there. So like, it’s it is a hodgepodge of amazing flavors, genuinely, I mean, the influence of Turkeys is right there on their western border, Russia right there, Azerbaijan and Armenia. And right below that is like Iran. So like you’re in a neighborhood in the world. I mean, it’s right now, the rest of the world. But historically, historically, it’s been like a through line for like, all of the delicious things that we love, and they kind of marry they’re in Tbilisi, so you have a lot of really great ingredients, a lot of great chefs and creative people making great food, sure, you know, millennia ago. And, like, first, the first time I went out to walk around town, I kept seeing these people eating these dumpling looking things. And I thought, like, Oh, cool. It’s like a, it’s like an Asian restaurant. Cool. And then the next table saw the same thing. Like, I was with a friend of mine. And like, it’s Georgian food, like, what’s going on is like, yeah, these are in Cali like their soup dumplings. And like, I never would have thought there’d be some thick soup dumplings here. But it’s looks like Chinese food or whatever. And then you have these delicious cheeses that are like hacia portee, which is basically like bread, bread bowl, cheese and a jar and export as a giant egg cracked and mix that all up. And you have like the best, most decadent, cheesy bread experience of your life.

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Allen

That sounds great. I can talk about the soup dumplings, which of course, you’ve got to be a little careful. So you don’t get burned. If you hit a wrong, right.

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Steve

You will. So you definitely yeah, there’s a technique. There’s a technique. So you make a little hole on air a little bit. suck some of the soup, you got the lava hot. And they don’t tell

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Allen

Big phenomena. Because I ran into that when I was in China and did the soup dumplings the first time and they’re like go through the whole thing. And no matter how many times you’ve tried, you’ll always mess up the first few times you have them then I get a little bit. Yeah, cooked on there. So the question we ask many of our all of our guests actually in, and I know you’ve given us a couple overlooked places, but we’ll put this off to the side and Georgia and others is Could you could you share with our folks a overlooked person, place, experience that that maybe people want to get out in that big world of ours and investigate that’s a little bit different?

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Steve

Yeah, I mean, I definitely blew it by saying Georgia early. 

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Allen

I know I put you behind the 8 ball right off the bat.

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Steve

No, no, it’s fine. Because there’s I could call or come up with a call with someone else. I will say, well, first I’ll say that I’ll say and I haven’t been to some of these but the region that Georgia’s in is also very interesting, Azerbaijan and Armenia, not from personal experience. I feel like it’s not fair to go into but that whole region just seems great. I will say you know what, I’ll go with a while. Yeah, actually, yeah, because Nepal is, I think people I hope people associated with the Himalayas. But it’s much more majestic in real person or in real life than I think what anyone would actually imagines. So you fly into the Katmandu, which is sort of the embodiment of chaos. And you wonder, like, how this peaceful religion of Buddhism could be prevalent in this just, yeah, like chaos. And then you fly off into, you know, local airport, which is the most literally built as the most dangerous airport on the planet because the land like on, okay, because because because there’s no roads that go there. So do you want to go to the Everest region? Do you have to fly into this dangerous airport? When they fly out, they fly off a cliff. And then Canada. Oh, by the way, because there’s not enough runway, there’s just not enough runway. So the beauty there, though, once you’re hiking out in the Himalayas, and I’ve touched on it before the people aspect of the place, which is I think, among the most important things, you can have the most beautiful stuff on the planet. But if you don’t have, you know, people that are open and willing to connect back with you, it doesn’t it the place loses interest in me fairly quickly. And what was great about Nepal is that you have the beauty, you have, obviously some very rich tradition there. And there’s really sharing atmosphere. They’re really, really, really, really wonderful people. Not just in the mountains, but in Kathmandu and Pokhara. They’re sort of second city. It’s beautiful. So I would say Nepal is a place people don’t actually go that often that if you’re a hiker, especially you should it sounds cool.

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Allen

I mean, first off your your airport, you know, there’s a lot of funky landing spots around that, but that one sounds, you know, one of the one all time classics, I was talking to a traveler also who they can only land on the beach at low tide in, in some airport in Scotland. So they time it because he led on the hard pan. So, you know, you learn these different stories, you know, sometimes I think it’s exotic enough flying into San Diego, where you just come in and do a power turn over the city, but then you hear about kind of diving off a cliff and then pulling it back up. That’s pretty cool.

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Steve

It’s just a wild airport. Look it up.

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Allen

I love picking up facts like that. And that’s the type of intellectual curiosity it’s really cool about, you know, our digital nomad community. So as we wind down the interview today, you’ve obviously traveled to a lot of places. Would you mind just sharing a few travel tips with somebody who’s listed as pockets is I want to do what Steve’s doing. But I don’t want to make any mistakes, of course, will always make mistakes. That’s how we learn. But is there a couple of shortcuts or travel tips you might have to make people’s life a little easier on their travels?

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Steve

Yeah, I think one of them is something we touched on before is a willingness to to be open to new experiences, and not sort of be in the bubble of what of your own expectations. And that can take the form of either just doing something different, or you know, putting stuff out of your comfort zone and talking to people that you might not. So that’s always a good tip for when you’re already traveling to get going. Is to just honestly, it’s simple. Just actually pay for a trip, not like make plans, but like putting money on something. Because once you paid for that plane ticket, you’re fundamentally shift how you’re going to go about everything else after that, because you can plan meticulously, but you’ll always find an excuse not to go but once you pay for something, I would, I would say that that helped me back in the day was like, I tried to make plans with friends and nobody will go with me. This was years and years ago. And I’m like, You know what, I can just go by myself. And that was that was a harrowing thing. But once I paid for it, I’m like, Alright, it’s done. It’s done.

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Allen

I think that’s a great tip. Because as I’m going to Cambodia and Laos, early next year, and all these people are like, Yeah, I’m in, I’m in. Alright, let’s now buy your tickets. Six people became me and my friend. You always said when money has to come out, right? You find out who is really going and who is not.

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Steve

Exactly. And it’s a difference between you going or not going to also so I think that’s like something I found I’d take for granted now is like I’ll just look up something I want to do and pay for it and it’s done. But in the past that was so easy, but it was the thing that made me actually get going was very cool down the line.

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Allen

So where can people learn more about you and catch up with you and use your copywriting services? Share with our audience and we’ll make sure this is in our notes on the podcast so you’ll be able to get links when we post this.

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Steve

Perfect so for writing it’s SBTcreative.com. And then yeah, my obviously my LinkedIn has tons of stuff for photography and other stuff just like more in-the-moment travel stuff that I’m doing. It’s finally.made.it @ Instagram, and those are the main two and then I’m always happy to Connect, if any wants to reach out and have chats as well. 

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Allen

And certainly, if I was heading to Croatia I would look you up to so this is great.

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Steve

Oh, I’ll be here for a bit so come on over.

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Allen

Sounds good. So thanks for joining us today, Steve. Really great conversation. So, you know, I learned I learned some unique, unique new things. Every time you have a conversation with somebody like Steve who travels, you learn something new. So thank you all for listening to today’s podcast. Remember, the way people find podcasts like ours is word of mouth. So just tell somebody else and we really appreciate your support. We want you to be confident in your travels. So thanks again. And thank you for joining us on The New Nomad podcast.